[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:06:52] Thema	rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-12-02 -- Init".
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:06:59] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting start, who's present today?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:06] 	 * ltinkl is here
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:11] 	 * G__81 is here 
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:37] <svahl>	present (partly)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:07:38] 	 * XulChris lurks
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:02] <rdieter>	than, Kevin_Kofler: ping
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:11] <than>	present
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:11] <Kevin_Kofler>	Present.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:08:23] <G__81>	Present
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:09:05] <XulChris>	Future. -- ill be here in a bit.. ;-)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:09:50] <rdieter>	short agenda today, but first I'd like to take an opportunity to welcome G__81 , mind introducing yourself briefly?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:10:09] <G__81>	yeah sure
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:11:33] <G__81>	This is Balaji from india, working for a telecom company as a software developer in chennai a city in india. I have been contributing to fedora and have been part of docs(fedora-wiki), have been testing packages from bodhi, a little bit of bug fixing and an ambassador for my region which is chennai
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:08] <G__81>	thanks rdieter
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:16] 	 * XulChris checks maps.google.com for chennai
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:36] <rdieter>	alrighty, next topic: kde-4.1.80 rawhide import status/report
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:41] <XulChris>	nice, next to the ocean
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:44] <Kevin_Kofler>	XulChris: That's what Marble is for. ;-)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:54] 	 * XulChris investigates marble
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:12:57] <jreznik>	G__81: welcome on board! nice to have here some docs guy, we are working on KDE 4 desktop guide :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:13:14] <ltinkl>	jreznik: ^^ was thinking about the same :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:13:48] <G__81>	thanks jreznik i could contribute to the docs too but i also want to contribute on bug fixing and packaging but have not done packaging :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:36] <G__81>	jreznik, infact i work on routing,security protocols and the linux kernel in the networking subsystem :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:58] <Kevin_Kofler>	Any help on fixing bugs can also be really useful.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:14:58] <jreznik>	G__81: KDE SIG job is nice because it's from artwork, packaging, docs writing to bug fixing :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:01] <G__81>	yeah :) i am ready to learn something new :).
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:11] <G__81>	and contribute back to the community :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:12] <rdieter>	G__81: one of your initial interests was helping with kpackagekit, right?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:24] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm probably the one who does most of the fixes done by Fedora's KDE SIG (though than and ltinkl also do some), I could definitely use some help.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	Of course any fixes should also be submitted upstream.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:16:57] <G__81>	yeah kpackagekit of course and am willing to contribute in other teams too :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:25] <XulChris>	why does kpackagekit require smart?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:27] <ltinkl>	getting kpackagekit on par with gnome-package kit would be very nice
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:17:45] <G__81>	i am learning the art of packaging and infact to kick start my journey took the klearlooks and lipstik and took those spec files made the package.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:05] <G__81>	SMSParish is the name against those packages but couldnt contact him
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:05] <XulChris>	i uninstalled kpacakgekit solely because of the fact that it installed smart on my system
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:25] <rdieter>	XulChris: don't confuse kpacakgekit with kdeadmin-kpackage
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:32] <ltinkl>	hmm, it shouldn't require smart
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:18:42] <XulChris>	rdieter: oh ya maybe that was it
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:03] <G__81>	rdieter, if there is something apart from kpackagekit also you want me to work on i am ready to do it :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:12] <Kevin_Kofler>	XulChris: kpackagekit doesn't require smart, you're mixing it up with kpackage.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:36] <Kevin_Kofler>	(That's also why kpackage is split out of kdeadmin in Fedora.)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:51] <XulChris>	i see
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:19:59] <XulChris>	ok, thanks for clarifying
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:03] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: how far on 4.1.80 stuff have you gotten?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	KPackage is pretty buggy and incomplete, and they had just migrated everything to smart when PackageKit came and it got all obsolete.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:24] <Kevin_Kofler>	rdieter: Well, I think we're about half through.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:20:35] <rdieter>	ok, what's left?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:03] <rdieter>	well, doesn't matter, we can get details after meeting, and split up the remaining jobs
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:22] <Kevin_Kofler>	Most of the stuff which doesn't depend on Plasma (I fixed the Plasma-related stuff first because it had a broken dep on the old libplasma).
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:26] <G__81>	i can start off with some trivial tasks so that i get a feel of it
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:21:53] <Kevin_Kofler>	I'm working on kdeplasma-addons now, just the file list left to fix.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:22:43] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: jreznik ran into an issue with kde-plasma-quickaccess, and problems linking libkonq, since it's in libdir/kde4/devel
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:04] <rdieter>	any ideas of how to better "fix" that, other than hacking in -Llibdir/kde4/devel ?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:16] <G__81>	rdieter, anything that i could do here ? :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:17] <rdieter>	there doesn't seem to exist any current cmake checks for libkonq
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:23] <jreznik>	rdieter: with ugly hack as you suggested i can build it, but I'll prepare better solution
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:41] <rdieter>	G__81: are you familiar with cmake? :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:44] <G__81>	i am a newbie but willing to learn and start off with small things :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:48] <jreznik>	${KDE4_PLASMA_LIBS} ${KDE4_KDEUI_LIBS} ${KDE4_KIO_LIBS} kfile ${LIB_INSTALL_DIR}/kde4/devel/libkonq.so)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:23:52] <jreznik>	ugly
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:07] <G__81>	rdieter, yeah i ve used it for compiling my own program when i had written some QT3 stuff
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:17] <rdieter>	jreznik: what'd you have in mind?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:17] <G__81>	i ve used cmake and moc
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:24:43] <rdieter>	G__81: cmake is pretty new, sure you don't mean qmake?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:01] <jreznik>	in times of Qt3 qmake
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:01] <G__81>	Oh sorry
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:08] <G__81>	rdieter, got confused sorry
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:12] <rdieter>	np
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:25:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	We can't just put libkonq in libdir, there's still the KDE 3 one used by stuff (e.g. KDE 3 Krusader in F9).
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:00] <G__81>	if there are some trivial tasks to be done something like code cleanup fixing some warnigs etc i could start off
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:32] <Kevin_Kofler>	This hardcoding of -l flags is a bad idea and a KDE 4.2 regression. :-(
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:26:46] <Kevin_Kofler>	I think it also breaks in other setups than ours.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:27:09] <Kevin_Kofler>	(Pretty much everything with the libraries not in the default libdir.)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:28:11] <Kevin_Kofler>	I was able to fix it for the plasma libs used in kdeplasma-addons because those are KDE 4 only anyway, but libkonq is a problem.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:28:37] 	 * rdieter was thinking kdebase-devel could provide a cmake macro for LIBKONQ and friends, or something like that.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:29:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	How is libkonq linked in by kde-plasma-quickaccess (exact cmake line)?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:29:34] <rdieter>	target_link_libraries(plasma_applet_quickaccess ${PLASMA_LIBS} ${KDE4_KDEUI_LIBS} ${KDE4_KIO_LIBS} kfile konq)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:30:28] <Kevin_Kofler>	So defining an exported konq target like the ones in kdelibs should work.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:31:56] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: I think so, it should help... tomorrow I'll take a look
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:33:46] <rdieter>	well, 4.1.80 was pretty much it for the agenda, any other topics to discuss today?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:33:56] Thema	rdieter setzt das Kanalthema auf "KDE-SIG Meeting -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2008-12-02 -- Open Discussion".
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:25] <XulChris>	can we have kde 4.2beta rpms for f10 on kde-redhat repo?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:38] <G__81>	yeah how do i start off with ?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:34:58] <XulChris>	G__81: do you want to become a packager?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:35:39] <G__81>	i am new to packaging but yeah i could do packaging i just tried couple of packages klearlooks,lipstik
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:35:43] <rdieter>	XulChris: as soon as we have a collection of pkgs that build cleanly, that's an option, but not before. :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:36:09] <rdieter>	G__81: threre's a good list of wishlist pkgs you could look over as well.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:36:47] <G__81>	yes but with respect to kpackagekit should i start off with something ?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:37:32] <rdieter>	G__81: best to discuss kpackagekit issues with SMParrish_away , he's the primary maintainer
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:37:48] <rdieter>	but I'm aware of nothing atm that needswork there
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:04] <jreznik>	G__81: best point to start is to package something you are missing in repository
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:14] <G__81>	yeah i tried pinging me couple of days back he was not there
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:19] <rdieter>	nod, that's the best practice.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:38:21] <Kevin_Kofler>	You could also try to get in contact with KPackageKit's upstream and work on adding features there.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:06] <XulChris>	does the kde spin still use gtk based system-config guis?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:13] <Kevin_Kofler>	Yes.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:17] <G__81>	Oh Ok
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:39] <XulChris>	is there any effort to make pyqt or qt equivilants of the system-config dialogs?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:52] <G__81>	i can try working on it
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:39:57] <Kevin_Kofler>	XulChris: No.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:01] <jreznik>	XulChris: yes
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:03] <G__81>	using pyqt or qt
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:09] <Kevin_Kofler>	jreznik: Oh there is? :-)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	Are you working on it?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:22] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: system-config-printer
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:27] <G__81>	asking me ?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:33] <Kevin_Kofler>	That one was done by the Kubuntu folks.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:39] <Kevin_Kofler>	And it's the only system-config tool they use.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	So don't expect any more like that from them.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:40:52] <jreznik>	yes, the only one
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:11] <Kevin_Kofler>	Anyway, I don't really see the benefit of porting the tools.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:12] <jreznik>	but it's based on system-config-printer from fedora as I've heard
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:17] <XulChris>	what if someone took the time to write fedora ones using pyqt, would that be a waste of time?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:21] <Kevin_Kofler>	GTK+ apps work just fine in KDE.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:30] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: not porting but rewriting from scratch
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:41] <Kevin_Kofler>	Even worse.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:42] <G__81>	XulChris, i can probably give it a try
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:57] <jreznik>	Kevin_Kofler: some of these utils are really outdated
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:41:58] <G__81>	you mean re-writing :) ?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:08] <rdieter>	<soapbox>rewriting system-config-* apps, while nice, isn't all that useful, there are much more productive ways to spend you time/energy</soapbox>
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:24] <XulChris>	if it were me, i would rewrite them, making them better than the pygtk versions
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:35] <jreznik>	every s-c-tool is going to be rewrited!
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:42:44] <jreznik>	policykit migration
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:43:10] <G__81>	i can probably do some work in that area if something needs to be done
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:43:44] <XulChris>	G__81: its not needed, i just hate those ugly gtk fedora apps
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:11] <XulChris>	reminds me of those redhat apps that shipped with redhat 3.x ;-)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:37] <jreznik>	so after policykit migration and separation of backend/frontend it will be easier to write Qt frontend
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:51] <jreznik>	but now the task is to clean these old ones
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:44:59] <XulChris>	cool
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:45:18] <XulChris>	once the frontend is seperated out, writing a pyqt port should be cake
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:45:36] <jreznik>	well I think s-c-netboot is dead...
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:46:47] <XulChris>	jreznik: is there any info on the web about this s-c-* rewrite?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:08] <jreznik>	XulChris: it's using python-slip I've attended Harald Hoyer's presentation about it
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:47] <Kevin_Kofler>	What's python-slip?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:49:51] <jreznik>	https://fedorahosted.org/system-config-kdump/ it's one of s-c-tools already ported
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:11] <G__81>	rdieter, if there is some work in other kde teams in fedora too i could do and am interested apart from me packaging stuff for fedora
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:42] <rdieter>	eager beaver, ok, next topic: brainstorm jobs for G__81 .  :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:50:43] <than>	Kevin_Kofler: python binding for policykit
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:51:27] <G__81>	thanks rdieter :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:52:17] <jreznik>	G__81: try kde-apps.org to find interesting kde applications to package
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:53:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	One more thing we should discuss: should we use a _default_patch_fuzz of 2 (or even 3) for the KDE packages or should we stay with RPM's default of 0?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:53:44] <Kevin_Kofler>	We had it set to 2 in the F10 packages, but lvillani rediffed all the patches and then dropped the setting, so now it's to 0 in devel.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:05] <Kevin_Kofler>	Which means that if some other change introduces fuzz, we have to either rediff again or just set _default_patch_fuzz again.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:38] <Kevin_Kofler>	I consider RPM's new default to be a pointless annoyance.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:54:57] <XulChris>	its not a requirement
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:04] <XulChris>	its up to the package maintainer AFAIK
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:08] <rdieter>	imo, use default 0 where reasonable.  If it ever becomes unreasonable, switch back to 2. :) (which is pretty much what we're doing now)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:40] <ltinkl>	+1, I think 0 is safer
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:55:43] <XulChris>	if you have 50 patches, you dont have time to repatch everything
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:57:45] <Kevin_Kofler>	Strangely, the request to use 0 as the default in RPM came from the kernel folks, who have hundreds of patches.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:58:14] <Kevin_Kofler>	They say the risk of an incorrectly-applied patch is higher with non-zero fuzz.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [17:59:35] <XulChris>	try using fuzz 0, and if you only have to fix 1-2 patches each release, then its no big deal, if you have to fix 10 patches each release, then maybe reset fuzz back to 2
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:00:01] <rdieter>	Kevin_Kofler: kernel folks got burned by misapplied fuzzy patches... that's why. :)
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:00:58] <Kevin_Kofler>	Well, one misapplied fuzzy patch really.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:07] <XulChris>	whats the most # of patches we have for any one package?
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:13] <rdieter>	yeah, gross over-reaction, imo, but oh well
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:01:15] <Kevin_Kofler>	And they said they'd rather do more work all the time than risk another incidence of the problem.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:00] <rdieter>	looks like we're about out of time for today, let's wrap things up.
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:25] <G__81>	ok
[Di Dez 2 2008] [18:02:27] <rdieter>	KDE SIG Meeting End